New thread for each enhancement request

Discussion and support of the compiler from ImageCraft for the M8C.

Moderator: richard@imagecraft.com

New thread for each enhancement request

Postby richard@imagecraft.com » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:41 am

It appears that there are a number of areas where we can improve on the compiler. The initial release of the PRO M8C includes two technologies to improve on code size and running speed:
- MIO global optimizer
- "8 bit optimizations" to catch remaining inefficiencies re: byte expressions

I am aware of the following and they will be addressed in other releases:
- LMM redundant page pointer write elimination

If there are other issues, please start a new thread in this subforum so we can track them separately. Thank you.
// richard
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Re: New thread for each enhancement request

Postby kiiid » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:00 pm

Richard, I am sorry to say it but I think the Imagecraft's compiler falls far behind the Hi-tech's one.
Like most of the people here I started initially with yours some years ago, then had to switch to Hi-tech and then (forced) switch back to Imagecraft so I believe I can make some objective comparison. The most significant disappointment for me was when I tried to compile (using the latest version in SP5.5) a file for 24123A and the compiler could not fit it into the flash with some lack of about 100 bytes even after every possible optimization I could make or turn on. The same file is successfully compiled with the Hi-tech (even the Lite version can do it!). For the small PSoCs every single byte of flash is a real treasure and I had no other chance but to re-install some of the older PDs where the HT compiler is still available. Not to mention that I had some other problems (like not working function UART_bCmdCheck() which otherwise worked just fine with the HT and some other small inconveniences).

So my only request - try to make it to compile to smaller file. It is really vital for the entry level PSoCs!

Just an idea: why don't you try to acquire somehow the legacy code from Hi-Tech and include it in your compiler? They obviously have abandoned it but there is still some potential in it. Everyone could be a winner if that happen.
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Re: New thread for each enhancement request

Postby richard@imagecraft.com » Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:12 am

kiiid wrote:Richard, I am sorry to say it but I think the Imagecraft's compiler falls far behind the Hi-tech's one.
Like most of the people here I started initially with yours some years ago, then had to switch to Hi-tech and then (forced) switch back to Imagecraft so I believe I can make some objective comparison. The most significant disappointment for me was when I tried to compile (using the latest version in SP5.5) a file for 24123A and the compiler could not fit it into the flash with some lack of about 100 bytes even after every possible optimization I could make or turn on. The same file is successfully compiled with the Hi-tech (even the Lite version can do it!). For the small PSoCs every single byte of flash is a real treasure and I had no other chance but to re-install some of the older PDs where the HT compiler is still available. Not to mention that I had some other problems (like not working function UART_bCmdCheck() which otherwise worked just fine with the HT and some other small inconveniences).

So my only request - try to make it to compile to smaller file. It is really vital for the entry level PSoCs!

Just an idea: why don't you try to acquire somehow the legacy code from Hi-Tech and include it in your compiler? They obviously have abandoned it but there is still some potential in it. Everyone could be a winner if that happen.


First, I am sure, without talking to Hi-Tech, that they will take that last suggestion with a huge laugh :-) Why would Microchip release the compiler technology they spent all these money on, to support their competitor!~!

Second, prior to this, we last delivered an M8C compiler to Cypress back in 2006. This switchover caught us as much surprise as to you. What I am trying to say is SP4.5/SP5/SP6 will pretty much just get us back onto our feet, so to speak. We made quite a bit of changes to the compiler and library since 2006. These were never merged back or ported to the M8C before. For example, SP6 we should support __flash keyword (no more needing to overloading const unless you want backward compatibility), sprintf, and most of the string.h functions.

We know we can do better with code size, and it's our intention to release a PRO compiler that will be 30-35% better than the STD one included free with PD. It will not cost an arm and a leg, but probably more like $349-$500. But it will take time. Give us a few months and I think the worst crunch will be over by then.

If you want, please zip up your project and email it to me richard at imagecraft.com. I can sign an NDA If needed, and I can use that as an internal benchmark analysis purpose.

Thanks.



// richard
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Re: New thread for each enhancement request

Postby kiiid » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:21 am

I really didn't want to offend your work. Actually you have done a great job so far, just wanted to point out the weak points in my personal experience and tried to do so as always I am doing that - in the direct way. Since your compiler is the only possible choice at the moment it MUST be as good as possible especially when it comes to fit something into the hardware constraints of the smallest PSoCs.
Yes, I can send you the source for reference usage if you want. It is a closed chapter for me already, anyway. If you want it please leave me a PM.
I really want to see your compiler as a full replacement of HT but as you say there is some (I hope short) way still to go.
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