Looks like Hi-Tech just killed the PSoC forum

[baxsie]

I was digging around in the Hi-Tech forums this morning, and relieved to see that all the PSoC posts were still intact.

This afternoon, they seem to be completely cleaned of any PSoC references.

Is there a chance eric can put a Hi-Tech forum here so we can attempt to support each other?

Or maybe it is just me?

[richard@imagecraft.com]

Wow, that's pretty, um, "efficient."

[baxsie]

I talked to the folks in the Hi-Tech booth at ESC (who are now Microchip employees), and they mockingly said "What is 'PSoC'?". Not very professional. To see them clean out the forums is just to pour salt in the wounds of the customers that paid for a product that has now evaporated.

I have never been much of a Microchip (once described as a "Triumph of marketing over engineering.") fan boy but there is no way I will ever look at their products again for a new design after this particular "crap on the customer" behavior.

How much effort would it be to keep the forums up and let Clyde spend 4 hours a week maintaining the compiler?

ARM is going to completely change the low end micro scene anyway (witness LuminaryMicro or believe in PSoC 5). I think in a few more years there will be companies that support ARM and companies that are struggling. And it won't matter how good your marketing department is if you are not in bed with ARM.

I would love to say scr*w Microchip/HiTech right now, but of the two compilers I have (ICC and HT Pro) the HT still outperforms by a good margin for my application.

Richard: Let me know if you get to the point where you are ready for a release, or even if you want me to hammer on a beta.

[richard@imagecraft.com]

..
I would love to say scr*w Microchip/HiTech right now, but of the two compilers I have (ICC and HT Pro) the HT still outperforms by a good margin for my application.

Richard: Let me know if you get to the point where you are ready for a release, or even if you want me to hammer on a beta.

*If all go well*, we will be working on an optimized M8C compiler to be released some times in late Summer/Fall. The performance goal there will be ~35% better than Hi-Tech LITE. I will definitely announce request for beta testers when it is ready. Don't hold your breath though. It will depend on a number of things falling into places and most of them I do not have direct control over. We shall see how it goes. Details forthcoming as warranted.

We will also be supporting Cortex M3 and M0 at some point, probably toward the end of the year. We already support ARM7 so the Cortex is not difficult. The situation is completely different than the M8C of course, but I believe we can compete there as well.

[baxsie]

Cypress and HT do not look like they have been friends lately:

The compiler is listed at $1495.00 here:
http://www.cypress.com/?rID=2579&source=header

The compiler is $2995.00 here:
http://www.htsoft.com/cypress/products/ ... orpsoc.php

Interestingly, you can still download 9.61 (registered) from the HtSoft site.

I wrote HT and asked them where I should go for support, if not the forum.

[IceCube]

The shutdown of the HT PSoC forum was pretty obvious, so I made a copy of it when it was alive...

http://www.speedyshare.com/819899796.html

Regards,

Rolf

[baxsie]

Oh, you rock!

It will be good to have that reference.

I just do not understand how Microchip can think that they win by pissing on a group of very potential customers (PSoC users).

Plus I do not like being pissed on.

That corporate behavior just stuns me.

There is a Microchip switcher in the product we are designing now. I know it is petty, but I think I'll find another switcher made by anyone except Microchip.

[jiml]

TI, Linear Tech, and Maxim are good places to shop for various switching chips! TI has some particularly interesting charge pumps if you want to go w/o magnetics.

jiml

[baxsie]

<rant_warning>
Here is a nugget (from ECN): "HI-TECH’s customers should continue to contact HI-TECH through the normal sales and support channels that existed prior to this acquisition." Apparently that is only if you did not use the HiTech support forum!

I had only ever used Hi-Tech for an early PIC design, and then the PSoC. Poking around on the archive of their web site, I can't believe how many processors are now down a compiler: ARM, 8051, MSP430, Holtek, ARClite, XA, Z80, H8/300, 6805, 68HC11, 68000

This image sums it up nicely:


I think what has me so vocally worked up about this is the senseless destruction of intellectual property. The HiTech employees worked hard to make the compilers for all those products. Now all that work has been tossed into the bit bucket. Think of all the resources that were used during that development: programmer hours, electricity, computers, building occupancy, hours spent commuting, the C02 generated, all of that is now wasted and the human race is a little farther behind where it was, just because Microchip had the cash to buy HiTech and spite to kill the compiler for all of its competitors.
</rant_warning>

[richard@imagecraft.com]

...
I had only ever used Hi-Tech for an early PIC design, and then the PSoC. Poking around on the archive of their web site, I can't believe how many processors are now down a compiler: ARM, 8051, MSP430, Holtek, ARClite, XA, Z80, H8/300, 6805, 68HC11, 68000
...

I could be wrong, but I am almost certain that all but the PSoC and 8051 were de-emphasized *prior* to the MCHP acquisition. You can draw your own conclusion

[IceCube]

The HI-TECH website says about the support: "Please note that there will be not further support or updates to the HI-TECH C PRO for the PSoC Mixed-Signal Array as of September 30, 2009. After this date, the compiler will still be able to function as is."

So it's good to have all remaining bugs reported to HI-TECH or Cypress before this date (and hope they will be solved)!!!

After this date no updates shall be made by HI-TECH, and if the compiler is bug-free this should be no problem. Users could give support to others, and like baxsie said, maybe Eric can put a HT support forum here...

- Rolf

[graaja]

This is a very basic doubt I have. Usually, the activation of HiTech license takes place online by connecting to the HiTech website. Let us say someone who has the HiTech Pro compiler had to re-install his Operating System. This would involve installing PSoC Designer and activating HiTech compiler again. Now that the HiTech website does not support PSoC compiler, how will this activation take place?

[dielectric]

Instead of granting you a license activation, the system will dispatch a Microchip salesperson to your door.

[rqn]

Now that the HiTech website does not support PSoC compiler, how will this activation take place?

I asked HiTech's support about this and got a reply "All existing PSoC compiler licenses remain valid, and the activation system will continue to function indefinitely".

[baxsie]

To HiTech's credit, they are answering support e-mails:

Hi *****,

Thanks for your inquiry. The version available is 9.61PL6 which can be downloaded from the Updates link on the PSoC page via our website: http://www.htsoft.com/cypress/products/ ... orpsoc.php
Your login details for our website are:

User ID: *****
Email Address: ****@*****.com

Please note: Microchip will discontinue the sale and support of HI-TECH C PRO for the PSoC Mixed-Signal Array after September 30, 2009. It will no longer be available for purchase or download, and there will be no further support or updates after this date.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards,

Katie

and I opened an issue here:

http://www.htsoft.com/support/supportform.php

Which has received a response.

[wrightpc]

I also had emailed to Hi-tech regarding support and future activation. Here is the reply I got:

Any licences currently on issue remain valid, and we will ensure that
our customers continue to be able to use the tools. Similarly, any
support agreements currently in place will be honoured for the duration
of those agreements.

The activation system will continue in operation for the foreseeable
future. In the event that it is ever shut off, there is a facility
built-in to the installer that will allow purely local activation, and
we will make available the necessary data to accomplish that at the time.

Regards, Clyde

I have never met Clyde, but I wonder if the microchip decision was one of "be assimilated or be run out of town". We had that about 5 years ago at the place I worked - not a nice position to be in. Clyde started this company and has probably worked very hard to get it where it is today. I do hope he got a lot of dosh out of Microchip (small consolation to the rest of humanity).

Paul.

[IceCube]

It seems like Cypress will encourage users to migrate to Imagecraft. There's also a migration guide on their site. After September 2009 HI-TECH will no longer support the compiler.

One major concern is whether the HI-TECH PRO compiler will continue to be supported within PSoC Designer or not. If not, all projects have to be migrated to Imagecraft, a time-consuming and costly operation...

Seems like Cypress is keen on one-compiler-only. I like PSoC but it's a shame to be dependent upon the agreements between Cypress and third party compiler-builders.

A quote from the PD5.0SP4.5 release notes: "The terms of the Cypress agreement with Microchip require us to remove Hi-Tech Lite as our free compiler in PSoC Designer."

-Rolf

[richard@imagecraft.com]

It seems like Cypress will encourage users to migrate to Imagecraft. There's also a migration guide on their site. After September 2009 HI-TECH will no longer support the compiler.

One major concern is whether the HI-TECH PRO compiler will continue to be supported within PSoC Designer or not. If not, all projects have to be migrated to Imagecraft, a time-consuming and costly operation...

Seems like Cypress is keen on one-compiler-only. I like PSoC but it's a shame to be dependent upon the agreements between Cypress and third party compiler-builders.

A quote from the PD5.0SP4.5 release notes: "The terms of the Cypress agreement with Microchip require us to remove Hi-Tech Lite as our free compiler in PSoC Designer."

-Rolf

NOT speaking for Cypress because a) I know nothing, and b) I can't speak for them but I don't think Cypress will remove Hi-Tech support unless they are contractually obligated to do so. For example, while I did not like the turn of event when Cypress moved to Hi-Tech, to their credit, they continue to ship our compiler (albeit needing a license from us to use) in PD5. So I suspect but do not know for sure, that what will happen depends mainly on whether what the legal binds are.

As for our compiler, we know that we need to provide a higher performance solution, and we will definitely work on that. Stay tuned.

[IceCube]

I was thinking the IC compiler didn't work well within PD5.0, but I might be wrong.

I love to see the new enhancements for the IC compiler. It would be nice if support would be added for e.g. the bit data-type etc. It would also be valuable if migrating actions could be minimized (by using the same code syntaxes etc.).

Is it possible to put the enhancement requests in the 'ImageCraft ICCv7 for M8C Compiler' section of this forum?

-Rolf

[richard@imagecraft.com]

...

Is it possible to put the enhancement requests in the 'ImageCraft ICCv7 for M8C Compiler' section of this forum?

-Rolf

Most definitely. Chances are the free compiler will stay what it is with minor bug fixes and enhancements, as it's "good enough" (10%-15% better Hi-Tech LITE). However, we are keen to develop the PRO compiler so any suggestions is welcome.

I do have to say that adding a new data type, e.g. "bit" is much tougher than, for example, doing better optimizations, strange as it may seem....